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	<title>Comments on: Documentum Renewal: Focus on the Core</title>
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	<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/</link>
	<description>Ponderings on Life, the Universe, and Information</description>
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		<title>By: S H</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-12293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-12293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think one important thing that you missed, was getting rid of redundant columns in the docbase schema. I think there are quiet a few redundant columns in the schema that are carry overs from Documentum 4i and older versions. 
I get it that there are customers that have yet to upgraed (although it is virtually impossible to upgrade, migration would be a better path to take), but I hope in D7 / D8 they improve / simplify the overall schema, that would be a great way to improve performance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one important thing that you missed, was getting rid of redundant columns in the docbase schema. I think there are quiet a few redundant columns in the schema that are carry overs from Documentum 4i and older versions.<br />
I get it that there are customers that have yet to upgraed (although it is virtually impossible to upgrade, migration would be a better path to take), but I hope in D7 / D8 they improve / simplify the overall schema, that would be a great way to improve performance.</p>
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		<title>By: Pie</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11623</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Dan.  That movie is one of my favs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dan.  That movie is one of my favs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ciruli</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Ciruli]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a terrific thread following a terrific post. Thanks, Pie, and everyone else who contributed. 

Watch for a spike, because I&#039;m about to forward this link to the whole xCP product management list.

And while I do appreciate each and every suggestion, I also think someone should acknowledge the genius you showed when choosing a graphic for the post  (maybe we just need to hire some engineers from Pacific Tech!).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a terrific thread following a terrific post. Thanks, Pie, and everyone else who contributed. </p>
<p>Watch for a spike, because I&#8217;m about to forward this link to the whole xCP product management list.</p>
<p>And while I do appreciate each and every suggestion, I also think someone should acknowledge the genius you showed when choosing a graphic for the post  (maybe we just need to hire some engineers from Pacific Tech!).</p>
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		<title>By: ukdavo</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ukdavo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree on probably all of your points - James&#039; too. DA, Composer, RPS - yes, yes and yes. Add in BPM &amp; Forms while you&#039;re at it. Ditto for backup tools.

Scrap seat-based licensing. It just makes integration a painful exercise. For example, you need to purchase licenses for custom dfc clients - this is in addition to webtop, etc - absolutely ridiculous. Just base licensing on server products - price per cpu/core or similar.

On an ECM project a couple of years ago, the implementation team just about gave up on DCTM due to licensing, not the technology (bpm, custom portlets, webtop, etc). We would&#039;ve gone with Alfresco if it wasn&#039;t for the fact DCTM was already in place and this investment had to be justified.

Its amazing that ECM have not led with a cloud based offering yet but perhaps the complexity of the DCTM architecture is an obstacle. I would really like to see the improvements being made to installation/configuration. Make it simple, quicker (it&#039;s sooo slow), scriptable.

Open the APIs (they&#039;re useless with Content Server anyway), let paying customers see the code. Something a bit simpler - list the product dependencies so that we can build solutions using Maven.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on probably all of your points &#8211; James&#8217; too. DA, Composer, RPS &#8211; yes, yes and yes. Add in BPM &amp; Forms while you&#8217;re at it. Ditto for backup tools.</p>
<p>Scrap seat-based licensing. It just makes integration a painful exercise. For example, you need to purchase licenses for custom dfc clients &#8211; this is in addition to webtop, etc &#8211; absolutely ridiculous. Just base licensing on server products &#8211; price per cpu/core or similar.</p>
<p>On an ECM project a couple of years ago, the implementation team just about gave up on DCTM due to licensing, not the technology (bpm, custom portlets, webtop, etc). We would&#8217;ve gone with Alfresco if it wasn&#8217;t for the fact DCTM was already in place and this investment had to be justified.</p>
<p>Its amazing that ECM have not led with a cloud based offering yet but perhaps the complexity of the DCTM architecture is an obstacle. I would really like to see the improvements being made to installation/configuration. Make it simple, quicker (it&#8217;s sooo slow), scriptable.</p>
<p>Open the APIs (they&#8217;re useless with Content Server anyway), let paying customers see the code. Something a bit simpler &#8211; list the product dependencies so that we can build solutions using Maven.</p>
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		<title>By: Pie</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for joining the conversation. I understand the EMC point-of-view, the question is will it matter in a few years if they have been surpassed by people that simplified.  They want to position ECM as infrastructure, but to do that, they need to provide it in a simple manner.

Most DQL problems aren&#039;t anything that indexes or common sense can&#039;t take care of for Documentum.  I&#039;m running 35 million objects in one SQL Server repository with no issues, at least not database related.  I view moving to Oracle as a cop-out by EMC.

Happy Holidays to you.  Get yourself to AIIM this year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for joining the conversation. I understand the EMC point-of-view, the question is will it matter in a few years if they have been surpassed by people that simplified.  They want to position ECM as infrastructure, but to do that, they need to provide it in a simple manner.</p>
<p>Most DQL problems aren&#8217;t anything that indexes or common sense can&#8217;t take care of for Documentum.  I&#8217;m running 35 million objects in one SQL Server repository with no issues, at least not database related.  I view moving to Oracle as a cop-out by EMC.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays to you.  Get yourself to AIIM this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Pie</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Walid, thanks for sharing about the cloud deployment.  I actually know that they are looking at this.  I actually used a Documentum instance in the Amazon EC2 cloud once.

However, it is important to keep on them until it is done.  This is a need that will only grow.

How much do you want to bet that they&#039;ll try and charge clients extra for the right to deploy to the cloud?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walid, thanks for sharing about the cloud deployment.  I actually know that they are looking at this.  I actually used a Documentum instance in the Amazon EC2 cloud once.</p>
<p>However, it is important to keep on them until it is done.  This is a need that will only grow.</p>
<p>How much do you want to bet that they&#8217;ll try and charge clients extra for the right to deploy to the cloud?</p>
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		<title>By: Pie</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greg, thanks for the additions.  I&#039;m sure that we could build one hell of a list of things to fix.  I like the Reporting addition.  Some reports should be out of the box.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, thanks for the additions.  I&#8217;m sure that we could build one hell of a list of things to fix.  I like the Reporting addition.  Some reports should be out of the box.</p>
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		<title>By: Walid Elgamal</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walid Elgamal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pie,

Good ideas and I certainly support you on all of them.

Keeping with your theme, my gift to EMC is the requirement and the importance to move fast with the Documentum architecture model and licensing to accommodate the cloud (virtual) pricing and deployment model.

In a simple cloud offering model, beside the simple basic system installation, it offers a temporary provisioning one of two ways, the dynamic allocation of temporary resources on the same virtual environment (CPU, MEM, Storage, etc …) or the instantiation of same environments over a specific period of time.

Recently, I attempted to create a proof of concept for these two scenarios on a private cloud for most of DCTM common components (app server, DM, ACS, etc …..).  For now I can report even without jumping into the licensing dilemma, the architectural deployment was neither easy nor fun.  In my view it was not even successful but this is a topic for another day.

Happy Holidays everyone and EMC too!

Walid]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pie,</p>
<p>Good ideas and I certainly support you on all of them.</p>
<p>Keeping with your theme, my gift to EMC is the requirement and the importance to move fast with the Documentum architecture model and licensing to accommodate the cloud (virtual) pricing and deployment model.</p>
<p>In a simple cloud offering model, beside the simple basic system installation, it offers a temporary provisioning one of two ways, the dynamic allocation of temporary resources on the same virtual environment (CPU, MEM, Storage, etc …) or the instantiation of same environments over a specific period of time.</p>
<p>Recently, I attempted to create a proof of concept for these two scenarios on a private cloud for most of DCTM common components (app server, DM, ACS, etc …..).  For now I can report even without jumping into the licensing dilemma, the architectural deployment was neither easy nor fun.  In my view it was not even successful but this is a topic for another day.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays everyone and EMC too!</p>
<p>Walid</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Hand</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Hand]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ahhh we are one day early for &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Festivus&lt;/a&gt; which officially begins on the 23rd.  Let the airing of grievances begin!

I realy hope that anyone at EMC reading this will not blow this off, but recognize that these are core pain points for users.

1. Pay an english speaking &quot;English&quot; major to review and proofread your documentation and support notes on Powerlink.  Isn&#039;t about time you made your documentation as a wiki?  This was suggested years ago by Craig, but alas, he is no longer with the company.

2. Documentum Administrator needs some polish.  Why when rectivating a deactivated user do I have to go back into the user acoount a second time to enable workflow?  Little things like this drive adminsitrators crazy.  What should be a 3 click process is 6 clicks.

3. Reporting.  Really?  You charge extra to give me a reporting interface.  

There are many more, but those are the first 3 that come to mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh we are one day early for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus" rel="nofollow">Festivus</a> which officially begins on the 23rd.  Let the airing of grievances begin!</p>
<p>I realy hope that anyone at EMC reading this will not blow this off, but recognize that these are core pain points for users.</p>
<p>1. Pay an english speaking &#8220;English&#8221; major to review and proofread your documentation and support notes on Powerlink.  Isn&#8217;t about time you made your documentation as a wiki?  This was suggested years ago by Craig, but alas, he is no longer with the company.</p>
<p>2. Documentum Administrator needs some polish.  Why when rectivating a deactivated user do I have to go back into the user acoount a second time to enable workflow?  Little things like this drive adminsitrators crazy.  What should be a 3 click process is 6 clicks.</p>
<p>3. Reporting.  Really?  You charge extra to give me a reporting interface.  </p>
<p>There are many more, but those are the first 3 that come to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure what happened, but the &quot;Happy Holidays&quot; was supposed to come at the very end of the above post ! Happy New Year too........]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what happened, but the &#8220;Happy Holidays&#8221; was supposed to come at the very end of the above post ! Happy New Year too&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pie in response to your wonderful ideas, and those of your commentors, and also in response to the posting by Lee on his blog - the problem is EMC. Its old fashioned &#039;big corporate&#039; with an appropriate (in their mind) licensing model. Why on earth would it roll elements in to the core product, when it can license them separately and fleece the customer some more. You may remember from the conferences where we met, that I have been fortunate to run an ECM programme in an environment where we got everything, all the modules, including the kitchen sink at a very, very good discount ! However we paid through the nose for a &quot;solution&quot; layer from EMC consulting which in the end was indeed &#039;criminal&#039; - most of the features of that solution are now in the core product (or the various modules). 

Happy Holidays from Canada !  :-)

So playing devils advocate, from the mega-super-corp point of view, why would they want to change their licensing and charging models ? There is almost a de facto opinion in the market place - if your big and your doing complex ECM you don&#039;t mind paying for EMC / IBM / OpenText (maybe Oracle).  If your not, and budget is an issue then maybe its SharePoint or one of the other (much better) mid-level platforms, or Alfresco if you want open source. By the way, I am not defending or vindicating this point of view.

I also agree with your point ref DQL - I have seen Documentum grind to a complete half on what should have been simple metadata manipulation, and we had both EMC and MS looking at it - in the end we had to move to Oracle to get decent performance !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pie in response to your wonderful ideas, and those of your commentors, and also in response to the posting by Lee on his blog &#8211; the problem is EMC. Its old fashioned &#8216;big corporate&#8217; with an appropriate (in their mind) licensing model. Why on earth would it roll elements in to the core product, when it can license them separately and fleece the customer some more. You may remember from the conferences where we met, that I have been fortunate to run an ECM programme in an environment where we got everything, all the modules, including the kitchen sink at a very, very good discount ! However we paid through the nose for a &#8220;solution&#8221; layer from EMC consulting which in the end was indeed &#8216;criminal&#8217; &#8211; most of the features of that solution are now in the core product (or the various modules). </p>
<p>Happy Holidays from Canada !  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So playing devils advocate, from the mega-super-corp point of view, why would they want to change their licensing and charging models ? There is almost a de facto opinion in the market place &#8211; if your big and your doing complex ECM you don&#8217;t mind paying for EMC / IBM / OpenText (maybe Oracle).  If your not, and budget is an issue then maybe its SharePoint or one of the other (much better) mid-level platforms, or Alfresco if you want open source. By the way, I am not defending or vindicating this point of view.</p>
<p>I also agree with your point ref DQL &#8211; I have seen Documentum grind to a complete half on what should have been simple metadata manipulation, and we had both EMC and MS looking at it &#8211; in the end we had to move to Oracle to get decent performance !</p>
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		<title>By: Pie</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great input James!  I have a few thoughts.

1) That would be great. I wouldn&#039;t mind a simpler version included with a bells-and-whistle version for a per-server cost.
2) I&#039;d like to see it from the file system.  Advanced stuff should be a simple price. 50K, use forever and as often.
3) HERE HERE!!! Damn straight!
4) It isn&#039;t that hard of a feature.  I wish they would make it standard.

Let&#039;s keep in mind that they need to make some money.  Great thoughts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great input James!  I have a few thoughts.</p>
<p>1) That would be great. I wouldn&#8217;t mind a simpler version included with a bells-and-whistle version for a per-server cost.<br />
2) I&#8217;d like to see it from the file system.  Advanced stuff should be a simple price. 50K, use forever and as often.<br />
3) HERE HERE!!! Damn straight!<br />
4) It isn&#8217;t that hard of a feature.  I wish they would make it standard.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s keep in mind that they need to make some money.  Great thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very good point here.  I think some of this is a little much, but the point is right on.  I have been eying Alfresco and have been amazed at what comes with it as standard.  Even if one were to purchase the support, it is cheaper and more user-centric featured than basic Documentum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point here.  I think some of this is a little much, but the point is right on.  I have been eying Alfresco and have been amazed at what comes with it as standard.  Even if one were to purchase the support, it is cheaper and more user-centric featured than basic Documentum.</p>
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		<title>By: lopataru</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lopataru]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great posts! So true...
I second the things said by James also (content migration/replication/import/export is a must).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great posts! So true&#8230;<br />
I second the things said by James also (content migration/replication/import/export is a must).</p>
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		<title>By: James Thorby</title>
		<link>http://wordofpie.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Thorby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordofpie.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/documentum-renewal-focus-on-the-core/#comment-11558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great ideas, I would also include the following:

1. Logical backup and recovery (file, directory, user), i.e. think CYA.
2. High performance Import and Export tools for bulk load / transfer with meta data support and transformation.
3. Better utilities for repository moves / renames (installation owner change, SQL / Oracle moves, prod -&gt; test replication, AEK changes).
4. Recycle bin in repository.

James]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great ideas, I would also include the following:</p>
<p>1. Logical backup and recovery (file, directory, user), i.e. think CYA.<br />
2. High performance Import and Export tools for bulk load / transfer with meta data support and transformation.<br />
3. Better utilities for repository moves / renames (installation owner change, SQL / Oracle moves, prod -&gt; test replication, AEK changes).<br />
4. Recycle bin in repository.</p>
<p>James</p>
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